Posts by Nacho Sanchez

178

Charging $150 To Tell Your Stories

by Bangalore in

jw
friends

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/how-to-escape-from-jehovah-s-witnesses-religion#/.

for $150: collaboration with the backer so that their story of successfully escaping an abusive belief system (300 words max) features along with others in the final pages of how to escape from jehovah's witnesses.

the text will be written by the author but will include a minimum of one quote worded by the backer.

Nacho Sanchez

Wait, here's an instance where Lloyd uses "woman". Interesting he uses "woman" for his wife but "girls" for his cybersexting partners.

178

Charging $150 To Tell Your Stories

by Bangalore in

jw
friends

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/how-to-escape-from-jehovah-s-witnesses-religion#/.

for $150: collaboration with the backer so that their story of successfully escaping an abusive belief system (300 words max) features along with others in the final pages of how to escape from jehovah's witnesses.

the text will be written by the author but will include a minimum of one quote worded by the backer.

Nacho Sanchez

I agree. Extremely poor choice of words at best or pure criminality at worst. Unfortunately due to the way this man is wired to view any and everything as an external attack, this issue will probably stay eternally cloudy. When this issue came out on YouTube, I was one of his friends on FB. As is typical, Lloyd went directly at the accusers and started making a laundry list of complaints against them, including past behavior. The result was an often rambling diatribe which both denied the allegations and fired back just as hard. Since I had volunteered to be on the translation team for the Spanish version of his book, we were on friendly terms. Though I do regret my choice of wording considering his ultimate reaction, they went something like this: Shame on the accusers if this is false, I hope this is prosecuted to the fullest extent if true. In his typical fashion he completely ignored the former and focused on the latter. Again, it was my fault as I should have used kid gloves on him if anything. What followed was an irritated remark, several messages of abuse by his supporters, and a quick block before I had a chance to clarify that I wasn't accusing him of anything and that I wished I had used better words.

Maybe Lloyd could have used "better words". Nowhere does he state this though. Still, what contextual situations call for a "girl" and alternately a "woman"?

Consider Bo Juel's book. On page 55 he describes how he met his first wife that he had known since he was 15:

Five years earlier I had married the most beautiful girl I had ever seen. I had known her since I was fifteen, when we briefly met at a summer convention arranged by Jehovah's Witnesses

How old was he when they married? Same page:

Neither of us were baptized into the religion when we got married. We got the whole thing signed up at the judge's office and that was that. I was eighteen, she was only seventeen, and my favorite song at that time was Bruce Springsteen's "The River"...

So he was 18. she was 17, and he referred to her as "girl". Flip ahead to page 89 where describes meeting his second wife, and notice the change in terminology. I will leave it there as Bo clearly switches from a "girl" (who was 17) to a "woman", albeit age not clearly identified. What is identified was that she was a "woman" as compared to the "girl" he had married as a teen.

When I first met this woman, I was blown away. She was incredible in every way and I fell in love like never before. We had only been dating a few weeks when, after being at the movies, I drove her home. She was still living with her parents, so we sat in the car outside their house and I started talking. It was cold and dark outside the car, but I did not notice any of that. I was just so mesmerized by this beautiful woman that was sitting beside me

55

11-5-17 Warwick Protest Photos

by thebrokenkite in

let the reader use discernment:.

i was disfellowshipped in june of last year.

while i've been awake for nearly a year, i still often feel groggy.

Nacho Sanchez

Thank you josephus/Neil for offering a more in-depth and accurate picture of the event. I haven't watched too many of your videos, but your contribution there in Warwick was noteworthy.

Regarding Gilbert (AKA "Sprinkler-Man"), you touched upon something that often gets lost in the mix. Full-disclosure here, I know Gilbert personally and was in the same circuit as him. You are right, Neil, that Gilbert will be hesitant to tell you what he puts into this. I can tell you he has put thousands of dollars of his own money regularly into his activism, the primary method of which is to this day the only 24/7 JW Crisis hotline that I know of. Gilbert is available 24/7 to anyone who calls into his hotline and has offered support in both English and Spanish. He has even saved a few lives by talking people down from suicide, much like you do Neil. I also can personally testify to the fact that Gilbert also put thousands of dollars into hiring a plane towing a sign with his crisis hotline number in huge letters around the convention in San Diego. (This sign was professionally made, BTW). He doesn't do this for publicity. He doesn't do this to get his name in the papers. He does this because this is what he feels he has to do. On his follow-up video, Gilbert did apologize for flipping off the JW security officers after they turned the sprinklers on him. He wishes the sprinkler incident didn't happen, but he's back at work now, trying to make a difference.

Thanks again, Neil, for speaking out.

110

Exjw activists protesting inside a Kingdom Hall today!

by Crazyguy in

spoonfed nomore, has uploaded a video on his youtube site, of exjw activists protesting inside a kingdom hall during this sunday meeting.

several people speak out.

if some one can put a link on here that would be awesome, i can’t figure out how to do it with an i phone.

Nacho Sanchez

thebrokenkite - Whether you care to admit it or not, we all have a "dog in the fight" (quotations included because I personally despise the phrase loving dogs as much as I do). You correctly identified mine as I agree with the goals of the protest and did not pretend to be a "neutral observer". Nor did I pretend that I wasn't either. Now the problem is getting you to admit your "dog in the fight", namely personal biases towards the organizers and possibly of the protest altogether. It didn't take you more than one paragraph in to take a jab at a couple of them, and indeed all of them had something ill said of them at one point, Neil Gardner being the exception. You see, you gave yourself away from the beginning by claiming to have already "low expectations" of the event. Everything you said after that is colored by that remark. And you can promise to watch your wording next time, but this you cannot undo. You revealed yourself and the figurative "dog in the fight". Look, I don't claim to know the reasons behind why you think this or whether personal grudges were greater than your disdain of the event itself. It really doesn't matter in the large spectrum of things. You do seem to hit upon "curious newbie" vibe enough so that I wonder if you are indeed who you are saying you are. But that's just me, I have no proof one way or another. So I just held you to your words as typed. It does seem that you understand that to label people as "elders" and having the "JW mentality" is derogatory to a former JW. I am not personally offended, it just would have been nice to have gotten a firm answer as to whom the "elders" were and what they did besides hand out books and allegedly brushing you off, but since you dropped that point it is only fair to drop my counter-point. I can only guess based on your comments that these were Joel and Parker, and to a lesser extent, Gilbert. But like I said, it's all speculation and I don't claim to have an insight into your head.

110

Exjw activists protesting inside a Kingdom Hall today!

by Crazyguy in

spoonfed nomore, has uploaded a video on his youtube site, of exjw activists protesting inside a kingdom hall during this sunday meeting.

several people speak out.

if some one can put a link on here that would be awesome, i can’t figure out how to do it with an i phone.

Nacho Sanchez

TheBrokenKite - It's not my elder tangent, it's yours. You were the one who brought up "elders" and keep mentioning it. I take it I need to quote you to refresh your memory. Here goes:

I know it was the first time for this protest, but for so many alleged former elders to neglect the most basic arrangements seemed a bit puzzling.

For context you were speaking about how it should have been an "easy hurdle to reduce by dressing the part". It is true that you didn't say people should "wear suits", here we have this quote. Question: How do you "dress the part" of a JW and not wear a suit. Just because you didn't come out and use the verbiage "wear suits" makes it untrue that you suggested apostates dress like JWs? Back to the "elder tangent" - Your use of "so many former alleged elders" is troubling based on your last comment. Again, who were the "elders"? These are your words, not mine.

Honestly, I would love to help with something like this in the future but it’s basically an elders club.

Now you use the label of "elders" again and didn't specify any targets, so I am to assume you mean the whole of the group? How again was it an "elders club", and no I am not reading too much into your comments. You called the protest an "elders club" and now you are keen to backtrack off your previous comments. So if I am getting you straight here, you are a newbie apostate who arrived with "fairly low expectations". Your expectations didn't seem too low as it turned out, because you labelled several people and possibly the group itself as either "elders: or an "elders club". Your first impression after visiting your first apostate event was this:

Everyone rolled in shortly before the start and I found it amusing that most of the ringleaders are still very much JWs

That might have been a good time to turn around and call it off if you felt that strongly. But I digress, perhaps you hadn't given up on them entirely yet despite your low expectations. Question: Could your "low expectations" have colored your viewpoint of the event and whom you perceived as their leaders before even meeting them? Wait, you probably don't have to answer that.

Some, though out, would still humble brag about the heights they reached while still active, which I found amusing and an incredible testament to the power of the JW mind control

Here the term "elders" is not used, but the effect is still the same. You have effectively repeated yourself again in labelling people as JWs and elders. Again this is where details would have greatly aided your story. Who bragged about what heights they achieved while still in the organization? Being an elder? Or was it something more specific to being an elder? Again, your words and not mine.

Whether it’s politically correct, or not, some apostates would help more by staying home or using different methods to advocate, as theirs are often counterproductive.

And yet here you were, attending an apostate protest at Warwick and not staying home. I'm guessing that you know better than these "some apostates" and your advice seems to be to dress the part (i.e. JW approved dress), act appropriately at a protest, and bring professionally made signs. You are welcome to your opinion and I look forward to you showing us this approved method in the future.

The apostate movement also needs more folks that are relatable, likeable, and had enough clout within the organization to legitimize the movement and its testimonies

So what do you mean by "enough clout" in the organization? Would that be an elder or someone with even more clout? I thought you were advocating against this mentality. Problem is, the more clout you once had in the organization, the less likely you are going to be "likable" and "relatable".

OK, enough talking for now.

110

Exjw activists protesting inside a Kingdom Hall today!

by Crazyguy in

spoonfed nomore, has uploaded a video on his youtube site, of exjw activists protesting inside a kingdom hall during this sunday meeting.

several people speak out.

if some one can put a link on here that would be awesome, i can’t figure out how to do it with an i phone.

Nacho Sanchez

the brokenkite - You said "some" of the organizers are former elders. Do you know which ones? What makes it unclear is that you use the word "elders" (guess it is loaded more for me than for you, thanks for noticing) while making the reference that some were former elders and then you brought up some by name (Joel, Parker) saying they were acting like elders. My question is were they elders? Does it make a difference whether they were or not, after all we are discussing recent behavior at the Warwick HQ, not past behavior in the Kingdom Hall. Please do elaborate and explain more about how they came across as elders. Mannerisms and idiosyncrasies do need to be further explored if we are going to travel along your elder tangent.

I saw the video and I didn't see a Sith Lord in there. I did see some dressed casually, others more respectfully such as a collared shirt. Still, apostate standing in drizzling weather wearing suits and ties makes for an awkward optic from my POV. JWs are going to have the same disdain for them regardless of what they are wearing. As for the news media, they interview antifa and civil rights protesters all the time while they are wearing their regular street clothes. Why would JWs be any different? Did you dress up in a suit?

It sounds like you have a personal beef with Parker. I'm going to stay out of it. I would think that the book being free and given at the writer's expense would certainly make for a counter-point, but as you seem to have an issue with him, you have already shut the door for any debate on the matter. You don't like him and I can respect that.

55

11-5-17 Warwick Protest Photos

by thebrokenkite in

let the reader use discernment:.

i was disfellowshipped in june of last year.

while i've been awake for nearly a year, i still often feel groggy.

Nacho Sanchez

Who in particular bragged about being what? I think there needs to be more details provided. I saw some names like Gilbert, Parker, Joel, Spike and Neil. Of the four I only know two (Gilbert and Spike) as being former elders. Were Joel, Parker and Neil elders too?

110

Exjw activists protesting inside a Kingdom Hall today!

by Crazyguy in

spoonfed nomore, has uploaded a video on his youtube site, of exjw activists protesting inside a kingdom hall during this sunday meeting.

several people speak out.

if some one can put a link on here that would be awesome, i can’t figure out how to do it with an i phone.

Nacho Sanchez

The post by the guy who says he attended is quite conflicted. First he says it was amateurish and unorganized, but that the organizers were acting like "elders". Calling someone an elder is a loaded word in this community, don't you think? An "elder" would be someone barking orders at people to get assembled, not two guys supposedly in charge of an amateurish and disorganized protest. How exactly did they act like elders besides being stand-offish? One even handed out his books for free. What was he to do, charge for them? It's offered for free, you can either accept or decline. It was a kind gesture and something he paid for out of his own money.

If I went to a protest which was originated with and was extensively hyped by a group calling themselves "The Vast Apostate Army", I certainly wouldn't have hoped for or expected the attendees to dress like JWs. Has anyone ever been to a protest here? There's always an element of chaos to the thing, and most aren't "organized" along a conventional sense. Having apostates dressed up like they are ready for field service has the same result in the mind of a JW, only to perhaps make them even more paranoid should any stranger come up to them. I can see arguments both for or against dressing up, but it really isn't much of an issue especially since it becomes obvious from the get-go who's who.

31

Big xJW scandal

by Charlotte in

.

Nacho Sanchez

Very serious allegations. Looks like this Marko is at the centre of them and claims firsthand knowledge. Yes, WHO is Marko?